Culture, Identity, Loss & Redefining Success with Angela Jamieson

Author and creator of Relaxed Productivity, Angela Jamieson, joins me to speak about identity, culture, ambition, family history, grief, creativity, and what it means to redefine success.

Born in Canada to Chinese immigrant parents, Angela grew up between cultures, with family roots connected to the building of the Canadian railroad and prairie life in Saskatchewan. Her early love of maths, music, writing, and travel eventually led her into engineering — a career that took her from Canada to the Netherlands and Brunei, while raising children abroad and building a life across continents.

We explore:

•  growing up Chinese Canadian while feeling culturally shaped by more than one world 
•  how travel, family history, and education influenced Angela’s career path 
•  building an international engineering career while raising children abroad 
•  the loss of Angela’s father and how it changed her view of success 
•  the idea of relaxed productivity and why doing less can sometimes create more 
•  creativity, romance writing, spirituality, and the different parts of a life that do not always fit neatly together 

After years of professional ambition and leadership, her father’s cancer diagnosis and death made her question what she was working so hard for. That turning point led her into personal development, a more spiritual yet still practical way of thinking, and into creating her work around “relaxed productivity.”

This is a wide-ranging conversation about belonging, achievement, family, creativity, and learning to build a life that makes room for more than one version of who you are.

About: Angela Jamieson is a former engineer turned Relaxed Productivity Advocate, speaker, publisher, and bestselling author. She helps busy professionals get more done by doing less—but smarter. She's recently published Using No. 2 to Get to No. 1, the cheekiest self-help book you didn’t know you needed. 

Connect at: LinkedIn, IG, Website, Aimee Bronson

Transcript

Intro and Listener Questions

Angela Jamieson 0:00

You know, I would go to work, you know, after school, you would get the kids from the bus, then I'd head over to my parents, help them where I could, and then stay really late, say goodnight to the kids over the phone while my husband puts them to bed, and then go home late at night. And just doing that for so long, you just don't even realize what you're doing, or how burnt out you're feeling, or how much is on your plate that you're just fighting through every day. But at that time, it just feels normal. I wasn't fully a mother. I probably gave the most to my job. You know, you look back on that and that ambition, that desire to be seen as worthy on a career stance, you know, being a female in a male-dominated field, there's so much to prove, you feel, that you're going to come hell or high water, you're going to succeed. And that that's the danger that I see people because I was there.

Regina Sayer 0:58

What has life taught you when someone you've loved has passed on? I think for me, as I was editing this episode, that is the thing that stuck out the most. I mean, I had a great conversation with my guest, Angela Jamieson, and also in the follow-up episode that we did about her book. As I was reflecting upon the episode itself, I think the key takeaway for me was what do we actually learn about ourselves when someone who holds such a key position in our life, in our hearts, leaves this world. But this show is not a show about regrets. It's about teaching us what we can do before we have those regrets. And I think that Angela, as she tells her story that leads up to her learning this herself and through the death of her father and her realisation of what was truly important in life. Was it climbing that ladder to get that really high position? Was it spending all that time and away from her kids and her family? And I think it's questions that we all need to ask ourselves. And maybe some of us we think, yes, it's worth it because that's what we're doing. We're providing for our families. Then there are some of us who think no. The time that we spend with them is much more important than the time that we think we could spend with them that we end up not. Angela has created something called relaxed productivity, and all of it came about as a realization of her journey to that point. She is a person who has experienced multiple cultures, who's lived in different countries, who her herself is of an immigrant family who moved to Canada, who grew up in a different culture, who married a person from a different culture. Somehow she managed to integrate everything into her life. And she has a humorous and uplifting view of how she led her life, lessons that she learned, and the lessons that she's still learning. And there's a little bit of surprise part in there when she talks about some books that she's authored, and it just goes to show that we don't have to be defined by any one thing. I hope you'll enjoy the show. Thank you so much for your support and for listening and for sharing. Hi everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Wisdom Without the Guru. So today I want you to consider these questions that are related to our guest. What happens when the language you inherit from your parents is one you can't quite speak? And how do family stories shape the way you see your own life journey? What does growing up looking one way but feeling culturally another teach you about belonging? What about if your heritage, career, and creativity pulled you in three completely different directions, could you choose all of them, or could you only choose one or two of them? And something that a lot of us have faced is the loss of a parent. But has losing that parent changed not just your work, but your definition of success. And yeah, this is a really good one. Do you think that it's possible to be more productive by relaxing and not pushing harder in today's fast-paced world? So for Angela Jameson, these questions are part of the threads of her own story. Born in Canada to Chinese immigrant parents, she grew up straddling cultures, carrying a family history that stretches from Canadian railroads to rural prairie life. Her journey has taken her across four continents, through a high-powered engineering career, a complete personal reinvention, and into a life where science meets spirit, not to mention romance novels. Welcome, Angela. She's laughing.

Angela Jamieson 5:12

Yes. Thanks for having me. What an introduction. I love it.

Regina Sayer 5:16

And is it Jamieson or Jamieson?

Angela Jamieson 5:19

Jamieson. And that's another funny thing because, of course, I mean, I've married a white guy and who has, you know, he's Canadian, but he has Scottish-Irish background. So now my name, you know, Angela Jamieson, when I used to go into meetings, they're not expecting this Asian person to walk in. I'm such a chameleon.

Regina Sayer 5:42

Oh, but that could be good subterfuge, you know.

Angela Jamieson 5:45

I know you just walk them off guard and you can just take control.

Chinese Canadian roots and family history

Regina Sayer 5:51

So we have got quite a little bit of background to cover with you. So let's just jump right into all of that because um I think it's really interesting that your parents were some of the Chinese that came over to build the railroad. I mean, that to me is just something you read about in history books. I've never actually met anybody whose family did that. So talk about how you grew up, you know, where your parents are from originally, the dynamics in your family. What were some of the things that were happening that you may have as a child sort of found odd or unusual? And were there any stressors in your life? And how did you handle them? And who did you turn to for support? She's writing down my questions.

Angela Jamieson 6:40

I know. I'm just like, holy crow. You just prompt me along the way, please. It's kind of like, you know, when someone gives you a list of questions and you can only remember the last one. Okay, I will try to give justice to my answer. So the railroad thing, my grandfather and great-grandfather came to work to build the Canadian railroad. And I actually didn't know this for a long time. I think I found out in high school. There is a town here in Saskatchewan, Moose Jaw, who has tunnels. And that's where a lot of the there's a Chinese laundry that they have modeled there. So if you ever want to see something really cool in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, there's the tunnels where they have one with the Chinese laundry and another one with the prohibition. So when I went to the tunnels and I came back and I told my parents about it, and my mom said, Yeah, this was your grandfather's story. And it was kind of like, wow, that's now it's even more personal. And when I looked into it, because by that time my grandfather had passed, it made a lot of sense in terms of my uncles. So there's three boys on that side, and my mom and her sister are sort of between the last two boys. But all of those boys are 10 years apart. And that's because my grandfather was away and he would only be able to come back in short intervals, or I guess they would make some kids and then he'd leave. So it was it's also kind of funny because when he was eventually able to bring the family over, he didn't know their birthdays. So he knew the year that they were born, but he didn't know the day. So that was that's kind of a funny trivia. So my mom's birthday as registered is not the real one. And he picked a date like later in the year. So then she's like, Oh, I have to wait for my pension when she was actually did attain that age a bit earlier. But at least he got the year right. So that was that yeah, that's where he came from. So my mother immigrated when she was eight years old into a small Saskatchewan town where she grew up kind of as a prairie kid. She had to learn English, which a lot of her teachers, and she's 82 now, but she had a teacher that's still remembered her and how she, you know, lear learned English really quickly, but still, you know, her mom never never learned English. And my dad, he immigrated when he was 28. So he was older, had gone through the whole, you know, teenage and all the university and everything, and he came over to Canada on a scholarship. And they eventually met at university where he was an assistant professor and she was a student. So my dad spoke Cantonese and my mom spoke Toisanese, which is a little village dialect, and the little village has only three million people now, so it's not that little compared to our standards, but everything in China is that much bigger. So they spoke different dialects when they met, and so they had to speak English to understand each other. And that's why when they started a family, we spoke English at home. It was only till later, years later, that they were slowly learning each other's dialects and they could understand. And I've heard my mother speak Cantonese, but I have never actually heard my dad speak Toisanese. But I think he understood. The also third layer of that is they both left before Mandarin was declared the unifying language of China. So neither of them speak Mandarin. So when I was learning Chinese, they were saying you should learn Mandarin because that's sort of the most popular kind of Chinese. And so, you know, at one point my Mandarin, my I could guide my parents through China because I could do basic Mandarin and they couldn't. So that was kind of fun. But then I come back home and I have no one really to practice Mandarin with. So I don't speak very, very well. Yeah, kind of sucks. Because, you know, Chinese people will come up to me expecting that I can speak something and nope, Dutch is my best second language. Sorry.

Regina Sayer 10:53

And we'll get to that later.

Angela Jamieson 10:54

Yes, exactly.

Growing up between cultures

Regina Sayer 10:56

But I'm curious, when you were in that Chinese laundry and you had no idea this was your own history. Were other kids who were in the class thinking, oh, well, you know, look at her, she's Chinese. Maybe this has something to do with her family.

Angela Jamieson 11:11

I don't think so. But I think when you grow up in Canada, especially if you know each other, you relate as personalities and as people. I think only when you don't know someone, and I this goes into adulthood. When you don't have a personal relationship with someone, you judge them from the way they look. But because they they were all my classmates, they're all my friends. I don't think they even thought of me as Chinese necessarily. I guess I'll have to ask them. But maybe because I never felt different, necessarily growing up. I did look different, but I can't see myself, right? So I can only see out of my own eyes. And since most people were white, I think that's sort of what I relate best to. So I actually, yeah, I actually don't know if they see me as different, but I've never been treated differently. I remember once being in a grocery line and there was a little boy in front of us, and he was making Asian eyes at me, but I just thought it he was playing around. So I started doing it back to him, and my mother said, Stop that. I was like, Oh, I do not understand the nuance, mother. So yeah, I think as a child, you're just so innocent.

Regina Sayer 12:26

Yeah, but it must have been interesting for you to discover that that was actually your history though.

Angela Jamieson 12:30

Yeah, for sure. And later on, you know, when we've taken visitors or I've taken my children in summer vacation, it means so much more and we can talk about it a little bit more.

Regina Sayer 12:42

So going into the dynamics of your family, did you have any kind of struggles? And do you have any other siblings that were there as well that came along later? And what was the dynamics? Like you already briefly spoke about it in school, but like friendships and you know, what were your interests and and how did you sort of, you know, see your adult life panning out?

Angela Jamieson 13:04

So I do have an older sister and a younger brother. As a child, so you know, whatever your parents do to you, you kind of think is normal because you have no other reference point. So it's only later you realize that maybe there's some different things. And I did know that, you know, when I'm opening up my lunchbox and I had rice balls wrapped in seaweed, everyone else had sandwiches. You're kind of like, oh, you mean you don't eat these? Or, you know, my my mom would always give us leftovers. So you'd have stew or rice or vegetables and meat, and everyone else had sandwiches. So that is kind of something different. But yeah, I guess my friends were really accepting. And I never really felt any different except when I celebrated Chinese New Year, but then I got money and my friends didn't. So that's kind of a positive, you know, the red envelope that we get during celebrations. So yeah, I think it's all a positive in terms of how I grew up. I think, you know, because I didn't speak Chinese, and because my cousins, we were, you know, I grew up with my mom's family, and her older brothers' kids, they did speak Toisanese, and her younger brother's kids, they actually spoke French because he married a Quebec quiz person. So they spoke French and we spoke English. So the kids all spoke English together, and we would be running around like crazy banshees and not paying attention to the adults who were speaking Chinese. So that was kind of my childhood is running around with my cousins and not listening to my the adults. And of course, we get a few words, you know, like uh sit down, are you hungry? Do you need more to eat? All of those really simple things. But in terms of sitting down and and chatting about your day, still I can't do it. Unfortunately.

Regina Sayer 14:58

What were your interests?

Education and the Pressure to Succeed

Angela Jamieson 14:59

Oh yeah. So, like a good Asian child, I played piano. So we always joke, you have to be good at calculus and a musical instrument to be really Chinese. So I did love math and I played piano till, you know, the highest level in the Royal Conservatory of Music. Yeah, so in that respect, I think I played on my Asian genes, the ones, the talents that come naturally.

Regina Sayer 15:26

And I want to step in here.

Angela Jamieson 15:27

Yeah.

Regina Sayer 15:28

Why is that an Asian thing?

Angela Jamieson 15:30

I don't know. Yeah, I've just noticed, like, I studied with the best piano teacher in town. All of her students were Asian. And so our recitals were like, you had to be good at the recital, or she wouldn't even put you in. And, you know, when I started putting my own kids in piano, they went to uh a lovely piano teacher. And we went to the first recital, and there were kids who didn't have their music memorized. They were played horribly. Like I felt like I was sitting there listening to someone practice in the other room. And I was just like, these, like the standards are so different than what I grew up with. Of course, after a while, I was like, of course, this is just about the love of music. So, you know, I relax into listening and appreciating all the improvements made by the children. But realizing that the way I grew up was really intense. Like the teacher would put you on the program according to your level. So one of the things you would do is you come in, you look at the program, where do I sit? Like who am I better than? Except if you were the first person picked, that means you were good too. So it was the first person and the last person got special recognition. And then you kind of see where you fit in along the way and who's better than you. So yeah, not competitive at all.

Regina Sayer 16:52

Well, I know um, you know, living in Singapore for nine years, I saw this. And I don't know if your parents were like this with you, but there was a lot. When we first moved there, we thought, okay, we're gonna put my child in the local Singaporean school. And we actually had locals, and you know, Singapore is Malaysian, Chinese, and Indian. And we would have local Singaporeans say, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. That'll be so much stress on your child. Just don't do that. And you could see these kids, you know, there was no play time. They went to extra tutoring after class, and then they also had some kind of like musical instrument, usually. Yeah, it was really very intense environment for kids. So, did you feel this kind of pressure from your parents that, you know, you needed to be in this top percentile of the class? You needed to go down the road of, you know, doctor, engineer, as we will see.

Angela Jamieson 17:50

They weren't really upfront with it, but for some reason I got the vibes. And my older sister and younger brother, they weren't as scholastic as I was. So unfortunately, yeah, they didn't do as well in terms of the Chinese scale of measuring success. I think it affected them. Like, I think they always felt they never got the approval. At least one of my brother's friends told me that. And it feels bad because I didn't have to work that hard. I just learned fast. Not that I retain anything, but I learned I can pick it up and spit it back out. Yeah, so I think there was always a little bit of pressure. And and like I said, the piano recitals, I think parents also looked at that list and they saw where you where their child sat. And if you were below a child that was younger than you, then that was a little bit of a you're not as good. You're not keeping up.

Regina Sayer 18:49

Did you feel the pressure from that? Or was this just like, okay, this is life? This or you did know, you just sort of like, this is what I have to do, and get on with it.

Angela Jamieson 18:57

Yeah, I think I don't feel stressed from my childhood in terms of from my parents. I think I was also that was part of me as well, being super competitive with that. And I've over the years tried to tame it down because you know, life is more than just searching for those accolades. But I remember the first music festival I entered, and I can't remember how old I was, but I entered six classes and I was so nervous to play, but I won every class. And I remember coming out of the last competition, I said, I can't believe I won six classes, and my mom was giggling. So I know she was proud of me, and I was I I caught the bug of winning, which you know, with music, it's a little bit subjective. There's a lot of technique, but it's also maybe what you're what the adjudicator likes. So, but yeah, I'm a little bit intense. I can be intense, and maybe that's like a gene thing. But I've tried over the years, because I know better and I've seen more of life that I've relaxed, I'm way nicer now.

Regina Sayer 20:02

You're more chill now.

Angela Jamieson 20:04

I'm more chill. I raise my children quite a bit differently, and surprisingly, they're way better than I am at everything. So it works to back off a little, people.

Travelling and the View of the World

Regina Sayer 20:14

Okay. Listeners, make sure you heard that. Okay. So I'm looking at my notes, and it says that you really wanted an international career, and that was sparked by traveling with your father.

Angela Jamieson 20:27

Yeah. So he was a professor at the University of Saskatchewan. So every seven years, I think, you're you can take a sabbatical. Um the first trip that I don't remember because I was 10 months old, he was finishing his PhD in l in England, in London. And then when I was six, we went back there. Actually, I think he didn't he didn't finish until I was six. And then we went to Somalia when I was 12, 13. And just traveling, and that trip, he took advantage of going around the world. So we left Saskatoon, went west to Vancouver, and hit all these places until we got to Somalia, Mogadishu. And we spent, you know, two or three days in each place, a little bit longer in Hong Kong, where I got to meet a bit of family, and then we went through Europe on the way back home. So we saw 20 different countries on that trip. And that was amazing. That just opened my eyes to there's so many incredible people around the world, so many incredible foods and the cultures and the sounds and the, you know, everything was different. And I just knew that when we lived in Mogadishu, it's so different living there compared to just stopping in for a couple days. So it made me want to work overseas because I wanted to live somewhere. I didn't want to just visit and be a tourist. How long did you live there in Somalia? We were only there for six months. So I think I was gone from Canada for eight months. So the rest of the time was traveling. But yeah, it was it was just before Mogadishu unfortunately has, you know, gone through some hard political times. So I feel really blessed that we we had that time, even though it was six months.

Regina Sayer 22:14

And when you came back to Canada, did it feel a bit weird because it was such a different culture? And after experiencing so many other different countries?

Angela Jamieson 22:22

Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think that was that long. But I think, you know, we'll get to my working career. But when I came back after that, then it's another culture shock. But I think just being, you know, eight months away, I was really looking forward to getting back and seeing my friends. So yeah. There was there's a lot of learning you do as a child, but you're also so flexible and you just take it all in that it's just it was just so fun and it was so much learning. That's why also this is so anti-Chinese Asian thinking is like traveling and experiencing the world is so much better than in a classroom sometimes. It gives you the street smarts, it gives you the world smarts instead of the book smarts.

Regina Sayer 23:06

And is there a point that you can think about in that particular trip that really stands out for you and why?

Angela Jamieson 23:13

There's so many. There's just I remember the cultures that I really didn't know much about. We stopped in Abu Dhabi, and that was a culture we like I had never seen before. Also, Egypt, and we did the, you know, riding on camels past the pyramids. All of those kind of experiences are kind of cool. And I think going to China and meeting these people who I was related to, that was eye-opening in terms of how they lived. And my parents explaining to me that they they live really well because I had one uncle, one of my aunts was married to a man who was part of the Communist Party. So they actually did very well. But they're doing very well is a tiled hole in the floor for a toilet, you know. So it was just a different scale of awareness that I was brought into. And yeah, toilets around the world are so different that it's and since we all need to use them, it was really sort of part of my education that will come in later.

Regina Sayer 24:16

Yes. She's coming back to toilet already. Okay, we're gonna get to that later.

Angela Jamieson 24:20

I can never I can never stay away. It's part of my psyche.

Choosing Engineering

Regina Sayer 24:23

Okay. So you decided that you would go into engineering. So how did that happen?

Angela Jamieson 24:32

Yeah, that was also an accident. But I think the universe works in mysterious ways that you put in, you know, what you want and it eventually finds a way to give you what you want. This is only looking back that I'm seeing this wisdom because at the time I was very unaware. But I remember sitting in my closet when I was young and I wanted to travel. So my uncle had given us little notebooks that were just blank. And I remember putting on one of them travel, so I drew an airplane. Another one was a factory for some reason called Fung Enterprises, that was my maiden name. And then another one of pallets. So it's interesting when you look back, it's I knew I wanted to travel. And all through school, I wanted to do accounting because when I was introduced to accounting, I don't know if you remember those big ledger books. They were like the size of your house with all those little boxes and stuff. And when I watched my grandfather put in, you know, the sales of the day, because we had a little confectionery, he'd have to write in these numbers in these little boxes. And I love penmanship. I loved putting numbers in boxes and then making them really obsessively neat because, you know, I'm weird that way. So I always thought I'm gonna go into accounting. And then it was like grade 12, two weeks before applications to university were due. I had this voice in my head saying, you better go really see what you're supposed to do. So go into the guidance counselor's office, and I'd never been in there because of course only screwed up kids go to the guidance counselor. Yeah, what I thought back then. I'd never been in there before, and I said, I really don't know what I want to do. Do you have anything that will help me? And she said, We've got a computer back here, it's got an aptitude test on it, and you know, those little flashing MS-DOS squares. That's the kind of test I did. And it all came out engineer or architect. And I'd never heard of an engineer. I was maybe so focused on being an accountant that I never really listened to anything else, but I didn't know what an engineer was. So I asked them and they said, oh, it's applied science. So I started looking into it because I did really love math and I love science. So I thought, what the heck? I don't know what this is, but I'm going to register in it. And lo and behold, that's what got me to be able to work overseas because accounting is so local in its laws that I would have to stay, you know, where you learn it. Whereas science is science everywhere. So I could travel anywhere with it. And that I look back on that part of my life saying that was a turning point. That was where I allowed something to happen that, you know, it knew what I wanted, where you say, you know, source energy or the universe or whatever, knew what I wanted and made made it happen at a critical point of my life.

Childhood Adventures and Family Life

Regina Sayer 27:22

So let's back up for a moment, because your parents built a home out on a 10-acre property.

Angela Jamieson 27:29

Yes. Well, it was actually my dad. So when he moved to Saskatoon, he had for some reason he had the foresight to buy this 10-acre parcel of land. And the story is that he came out every weekend with a little axe, and he was knocking down trees one by one to clear a place where he would put his house. That's sort of his dream, I guess. So that was probably in middle 60s when he came. And then he and my mom, they got married in 68, and they slowly built this house to be ready in 75. So yeah, we moved to this house in 75, and it was such an amazing childhood. You know, there's so much open area, there's so much exploration. I remember just running around in the grass, which in hindsight, my dad never mowed the lawn. So the grass was always really tall. But I loved making, you know, you snap down the grass and you create rooms. We used to create houses where we could, the grass was so tall that once you were in a room, no one could see you. Because we had such a beautiful childhood here. My husband and I wanted to raise our kids on the same parcel of land. So we bought this eventually from my parents. So now we're living on the same piece of land that I grew up in.

Regina Sayer 28:45

But were you a bit too far out for your friends to come out, or did they come out and spend the night or Yeah, we we did all of that.

The Toilet Paper Incident That Kept Coming Back

Angela Jamieson 28:53

But yeah, it did require driving, whereas a lot of my friends, they could walk to each other's houses. So we went to a a country school before I was in grade four. I think I moved to the city, but in the country school, we all were on the bus and we never saw each other outside of school. I did have a friend who was about a half a mile away, and I would walk to her place. And I told my mom this when I was an adult, and she was like, I don't think I knew you did that. So there you go, hands-off parenting right there. You know, they just went out and they were all landscaping our property and not really thinking about where their kids were, but I often walked there. Yeah. Those were the good days, you know, freedom all across the land.

Regina Sayer 29:36

I'm gonna ask you to talk to tell about the toilet paper incident because that will lead in later because this is in the timeline, this is when it happens. Although it seems to rear its head quite often after that.

Angela Jamieson 29:50

It does. So on our acreage, we have a septic tank, and the septic pump kept getting plugged. And my dad was really convinced it was the amount of toilet paper we were using, and he would listen. Whenever you're in the bathroom, he'd listen and he would get really angry because he'd hear the toilet roll going around and around and around. Of course it's not me because I was trying to be really good. And the first time I heard him get angry about the toilet paper going around, I very quietly tried to find the end, and then I would take off only what I needed. But my brother and sister, they just hit, they hit the toilet roll. And they told me later, they're just trying to find the end. It's not like paper was coming off, but my dad would just like imagine these mounds of toilet paper that they were using. So eventually he just lost it and he decided to ration our toilet paper. We got one square for number one and two squares for number two, and he hid the toilet paper, having the only one roll in his pants pocket while he went landscaping. So as kids, we would have to anticipate when we would go, and we'd have to run and find him, and we'd have to tell him what we were doing, and then he would give us the allotted squares, and then we'd have to run back into the house to use the washroom. So there's memories of like not quite making it, having to pee in the grass, which is also a very good skill to have. But when you have to do number two, you gotta you got priorities, you know? And so it's like you're gonna go to the toilet and you're gonna sit there and do your do your stuff, but then you gotta yell because a sibling's gotta go find my dad, or you know, hopefully he came in for a drink or something like that. But yeah, there was times where I'm sitting on the toilet with my legs swaying, waiting for a rescue. Some people afterwards they would say, you know, why didn't you just tell your dad more that, oh, I have to do number two, number two, number two, and then just stash it away. And it's like, I never even thought of it. I never thought of it. You know, that and that's the innocence of children is that you just do what your parents tell you to do.

Regina Sayer 32:00

And your mom was like, Oh, she was okay with that. She didn't tell your father?

Angela Jamieson 32:05

So she was so angry because he also rationed it from her. Oh, we would also have to try to find him. And so I'm probably the only person on the planet who's heard their parents argue about toilet paper, and my mom saying, You don't understand women's anatomy. Like, this is not enough. This is these squares. And then so after that argument, the toilet paper was back in the bathrooms and we never, never happened again. Now being the owner of this house, we we've never had a plugged septic pump. So I'm not really sure, and I don't think we've switched it out, but anyway, maybe we have. But it's just one of those things of why did that happen so often? A mystery that will never be solved.

Regina Sayer 32:48

Maybe it happened so often because of what we're gonna talk about later.

Angela Jamieson 32:53

Maybe.

Marriage, Relationships and Cultural Expectations

Regina Sayer 32:55

Okay, so you let me see, you finished university and did you meet your husband in university?

Angela Jamieson 33:01

Yeah, um, we did, which is another miracle in itself because he's six years older than me and we should have never met. He was like a small town boy coming to you to the big city, which is not very big, when he was 18. And and it's more of trying to survive when you're that age, which didn't go that well. So it took him a little longer to get through university, but he is probably a better engineer than I am. Because he's just so practical, you know. And so just because someone takes time to go through doesn't mean that they're any less.

Regina Sayer 33:34

Was he the first guy you dated? No. And how were your parents about dating the local boys?

Angela Jamieson 33:40

They never said anything. It was only years later. I remember I was overseas and I was texting, not texting, emailing my dad. And emailing my dad was so good because I could ask him questions, like close my eyes and press enter, and then he would actually answer. So one of the questions I asked him was, Did it bother you that I married a white person? And he said, No, because when I immigrated here, I knew that would be a possibility. So he goes, it doesn't bother me. And then later on, I learned that when he moved to Canada, his first girlfriend was a white woman, which his parents were not happy about. And his parents made him break up with her. You you know, imagine the pull. You know, he's in Canada, his parents are in China, they will there's no beating, but somehow he respected them, their wishes enough that he broke up with her. So that's sad.

Moving abroad and building an international career

Regina Sayer 34:37

With your husband, you so you got married, and then you both decided, okay, we're out of Canada, let's go travel.

Angela Jamieson 34:44

Well, he graduated in 92 and I graduated in 94, and there was hardly any jobs, but I did find a job in Calgary, which is the major city west of us. So I took a job there, and after I had worked there for three years, I just said to my husband, I think I want to work overseas. Some of my friends had gone overseas, and I had also done my training overseas with this company. And so I had met a lot of young people just like me who were working with the company and on an international level. And I just wanted that. So I talked to my husband, and he was an engineer, but also became a financial planner at the time. And then he just said, okay, let's go. I will, I will wait tables if I have to. So I applied overseas and they accepted me, and then off we went. So it was really made possible by my husband agreeing to be the accompanying spouse and being open to that. So I really, I really appreciate that.

Regina Sayer 35:50

And so you headed to next door to me to the Netherlands.

Angela Jamieson 35:54

Yes. My options were to either go to the to Aberdeen, the UK, or the Netherlands. And I think there was like the Dutch national company. But I worked for um, and it it was Shell that I worked for, uh, Shell Namibia was my first posting because I kind of thought going to Namibia would be cool. So that's the first posting I took. And unfortunately, we couldn't make the project work. So after two years, they decided to shut it down. And that's when I joined the Dutch company. Because then at that time I felt I have not explored the Netherlands enough. It's only been two years. So we stayed there and I joined the National Oil and Gas Company.

Regina Sayer 36:34

So this was the start of how many years overseas?

Parenthood in the Netherlands and Brunei

Angela Jamieson 36:38

Overseas is 13.

Regina Sayer 36:41

And you had all your children abroad?

Angela Jamieson 36:43

Yeah. So it was at the end of our Dutch posting that I had my daughter. So it's kind of funny because a lot of the pregnancy terminology I only know in Dutch because yeah, that's all I I heard at the time. Then my boys were born during our second posting in Brunei, Darussalam, in Southeast Asia. So that second posting was really an attempt of me trying to be Asian. Like I just wanted to know what it would like be like to live in Asia. And I actually did want to go to Beijing, but I knew it would be super hard for my husband because, you know, he does all the settling in in terms of connected, our internet, you know, finds places for him and our children, just settles us in before he looks for a job. So being in China, everyone said, Oh, it's so much more difficult for the accompanying spouse. And the worker, well, I mean, we just get to go to the office and we work and everyone speaks English there, and we get on with our work, was really in consideration for my husband that we ended up in Brunei, which is still in Asia, but not Chinese. I'm pretty sure if I had gone to China, my Chinese, my Mandarin would be way better. But we just we went to Brunei, which is so English. Like everyone speaks English and

Regina Sayer 38:08

Very international.

Angela Jamieson 38:09

Yeah. There's 30% of the population is Chinese, and they do speak Mandarin, but there's a little bit of an accent. But I did take Mandarin lessons there. I did the sort of basic Malay, because that's their their national language, so I could do basic Malay, but I really thought I'm gonna take advantage of being here and learn some Mandarin, and so focused on that. But again, I didn't, I wasn't immersed in it like in the Netherlands. I could get immersed in it, and that's why my Dutch is a lot better. But yeah, never quite got the the Chinese solidified in my head.

Regina Sayer 38:44

So your child that was born there speaks Dutch?

Angela Jamieson 38:47

She started. Don't talk to her about this because she's so angry we've we dropped it. But her first words were Dutch, and then we kept talking to her in Dutch. When we moved to Brunei, we did have the option of putting her in the Dutch stream at the Shell school. But then people were saying, well, if she's not gonna be Dutch later, maybe that doesn't really make sense. So the other Dutch expats there, they didn't know us from the Netherlands. Like everyone comes from other countries. And so they never spoke Dutch to me. And then over time, I just forgot to speak Dutch. And I remember like all of our nursery rhymes that we'd sing with my daughter, they were all in Dutch. But after two years, I realized I wasn't speaking Dutch anymore. And therefore, yeah, my daughter lost it. She's so upset.

Regina Sayer 39:35

And was it difficult being away from your parents and having children abroad?

Angela Jamieson 39:39

A difficult because you don't have that support. We don't have the support, but I also didn't know any different. My mom did come over when the babies were first born, and she would kind of be like a night maid for me, which was pretty amazing. But also it's different because my husband didn't have to do anything. So I always go, man, you got off easy. But it's also part of the bonding as a family. You don't get those early days. You know, so the I think with the first pregnancy, I was a little bit upset about it because my husband didn't have to do anything and my mom would help, and she stayed for like three months. And since she did the nighttime, she was not awake during the day. So I couldn't really show her around. It was just kind of this not what I imagined for her time with me. I had a few friends who their moms have passed, and they would started having kids, and they were like, Oh, if only my mom could be here. And then that's when I changed my mind, is just like, I'm counting my blessings, I will take whatever she gives me, you know, gratefully and thankfully, and my husband will have time to contribute later. So the it's like that mindset shift I needed to do.

Regina Sayer 40:51

And all this time, despite having three children, you're still climbing the corporate ladder.

Angela Jamieson 40:57

Yeah. And honestly, in Brunei, it's so easy because it's very common there to have a maid, a live-in maid, to the point like all the houses are built with maid quarters. So if you don't have a maid, you're actually not participating in society the way that you should, and you're not spreading the wealth with someone that might need it.

Regina Sayer 41:19

So there's a lot of Filipino maids there, I believe.

Angela Jamieson 41:22

So we did have a Filipino maid, and um, she was lovely, loving to my children, but uh it was also really weird for us because we've never had house help. And so having someone there all the time was really weird for us. And so we would I would come home from work and you know, my kids are all taken care of and supper's cooked. So all we have to do is eat and then we could play the whole time. I would let my our maid go in the evening because I like I just wanted it to be us. And that was weird for her because she was used to working from, you know, six in the morning to eleven at night with her previous employer, who was from a country who was used to having maids. So they they knew what to do. But and I'm not saying that what I did was wrong because that's what I was comfortable with. And I don't think you should use someone just because they're used to working crazy hours. So our maid had to get used to our way of life as well. She was there to help me with the children when I wasn't, but when I was home, I'm good, it can go. But then she started having a social life too, which she didn't have for a long time. So that was kind of neat.

Regina Sayer 42:28

When I lived in Singapore, we had a helper as well. Yeah, it was super weird. I and I couldn't get used to somebody being in the house all the time. I felt like I never had any privacy. And even though she did have every Sunday off, which compared to other that's scandalous other helpers, were like, what? You're giving your helper a Sunday off, you know? And you know, I would actually try to get her to go on holiday, to go back to the Philippines on holiday, but she didn't want to go because if she went home, there was the possibility that she might get stuck there, that they might not let her come back. And then also because, you know, all the money that they made, they would send to people at home. And if they went home on holiday, she would say that everybody just came out of the woodwork and just wanted money from her. So she didn't like to go home. I think she maybe went home once or twice in the nine years that we were there, and that was her choice.

Angela Jamieson 43:21

How many years were you there?

Regina Sayer 43:22

I was there for nine years.

Angela Jamieson 43:23

Wow. Yeah.

Regina Sayer 43:24

And she was with us for nine years. But yeah, it was an interesting dynamic, and I I can empathize with what you say because I felt strange too. But I really do appreciate that she was there because I know at that time I I really needed the help with my son who had just turned two, so he's in terrible twos.

Angela Jamieson 43:42

Yeah, yeah. Well, there was no daycare. There was no daycare where we were, so we needed that help, especially when my husband went to work as well. But he stayed home for probably half a year, nine months, just because you don't want to you'd land in a place and you leave your child with someone you don't know in your private house. Where no one's watching. You know, we couldn't do that. So he stayed and just to watch the interaction and slowly let go because yeah, we just weren't used to that.

Regina Sayer 44:09

Yeah. But anyway, so you're there for six years with three different positions.

Returning Home: A Shift in Priorities

Angela Jamieson 44:15

Yeah. And that's what I love about a large company is that you can change jobs within the company and now all of a sudden it's brand new. Yeah. For some reason, after two years of being a typical engineer, I became a team leader and then also became the discipline. They call it the discipline engineer, which you basically take start taking care of the other engineers who are like you in terms of taking care of their development, making sure that they're getting the opportunities they want. So that's kind of a really nice step into management. And then my next role after that was leading a study team. Just before I left, I was put on a corporate-wide project to examine the reserves, how much reserves Brunei had left. So that was kind of the last hurrah that I did. But it was so much fun. The people there were great. And like you said, it's kind of climbing the corporate ladder in terms of, yeah, I was quite ambitious and I wanted the opportunities. I wanted to be challenged. I wanted to learn how to be a leader. So I did well.

Regina Sayer 45:22

If you loved all of that, why did you then decide to go back to Canada?

Angela Jamieson 45:26

I think it's the children. Also, among our friends, we had a few who would get that call in the middle of the night to say, you know, your dad passed away last night. And then there's just, I didn't want that. So instead of planning my next move, which would have probably been to the Middle East, which I would have loved, but it just felt like it was time to go home and to be with be with our parents. And yeah, I'm really glad we did. I think it was one of those, all the other expats, when we talked about, you know, we're going home, they were like, but do you have enough money to go home? Do you, you know, all of that concerns. But there was such a huge, strong calling inside of me to go home that I had to trust. And yeah, it all worked out in hindsight. I had three years left with my dad when we came back. He passed away three years after we got back. And so I that's that time is really precious to me.

Regina Sayer 46:21

And when you went back, was it then culture shock? After being away for 13 years?

Angela Jamieson 46:26

Yep. When we made the decision, I would connect to our local radio just to listen to what's going on in our city. And I'm just, there was an accent. They talked with an accent, a Saskatchewan accent, is like, can I really go back to this? And but, you know, the the pull from family is huge. So we just use that listen to the accent, listen to what's going on just to sort of smooth our way back into the culture again. And yeah, I think, you know, our children were young enough that I don't think they remembered too much in terms of I think my daughter remembers the most. And her culture shock was she would stand. The teacher called us and said, she's not really moving at recess. You know, she's just standing there. And so we talked to her and we're going, you know, she goes, I'm so cold. And I was like, you know that when you run around, you'll get warm. And it was one of those things that I don't think she'd really thought about. And so she didn't know how to deal with the snow. I mean, she barely wore socks going back because Brunei is a tropical country. So my son, who was three, when we moved back, he refused to wear socks. And we're going, you have to wear socks. It's like minus 40 when we arrive. And he's like, No, no, no. And then we got there, he's like, hand over those socks in a three-year-old way. You know, it was just like, it was easy to convince him to get the socks on after that.

Regina Sayer 47:49

That's funny. That was the opposite from my son, because moving from Belgium, he used to always wear little socks, you know? And I don't know what it is. We got to Singapore.

Angela Jamieson 47:58

And he wouldn't take them off.

Regina Sayer 48:00

He lost the sucette, the uh pacifier. He got rid of that. He refused to sleep in one of these, you know, smaller beds for kids. He wanted to sleep in a big boy bed. And and you know, he was only like two and never asked to wear socks again. He used to cry if he would try to take his socks off and get him to like run around the yard without socks on. But then we got there and that was it. I thought, wow, that was an easy transition.

Angela Jamieson 48:29

Yeah, and that's true. My son also lost his soother along the way. He's maybe a little old, three, but um, yeah, never use it again after our big flight back.

Regina Sayer 48:41

Maybe there was just so much else going on and so many different things that they didn't even think that think about that anymore.

Angela Jamieson 48:48

Or maybe so exhausted he just fell asleep, didn't need it anymore.

Regina Sayer 48:52

So what happened career-wise when you went back home? So and you moved back near your parents in the same area?

Angela Jamieson 48:58

Yeah, so we moved back to the house I was raised in. The last year before we moved back, we renovated it, which my dad was not happy about. He's like, you could move right back in here. Why do you have to do all this work? But, you know, dad, the green and yellow wallpaper, the green carpet, you know, the balls.

Regina Sayer 49:19

In the 70s.

Angela Jamieson 49:20

Yeah, it was totally 70s. And, you know, kudos to my parents. They were just, they just took those risks in design, but you know, it's not what I wanted. So we just gutted the place, remodeled everything, and yeah, my dad watched in horror. But a few months after we had arrived, my husband and I were just watching TV and our house goes about to go to bed, and it's like ding-dong. It's my parents with their, I think there was about six of them, family friends, and they had just gone out for dinner and they wanted to show them the house, what we had done to it. Because of course, all of our family friends have known the house since it was built. So they all came in and looked around. And so I then I knew my dad was proud of what we had done.

Regina Sayer 50:04

What did you do for work? Did you go right back to work?

Angela Jamieson 50:07

No, so I had just had my my last son. Yeah, I think he was four months old when we moved back. So I was still deep in recovering from that. And I thought I'm just gonna take some time because when I had my second son and also my daughter, you know, I wanted to feed them breast milk for a long time. But as international staff, we only had four months leave. So I had to go back when they were usually three months because you're supposed to take off a month before you're due. So you'd have to go to a room, you'd have to express your milk, you'd have to put it in the fridge and all this stuff. And as I was climbing the ladder, I'd have to do technical reviews that lasted all day. And it was like, I can do them, but I need a break at 10 and noon and two in order to go pump. And I just didn't want that anymore. So with the third one, I was like, I'm just gonna stay home with this child and and be able to feed the child without all this stress in my life. And really, it was a great time to just settle in and not work. I thought that was a really that was gonna be a really nice chapter of being a stay-at-home mom. And I think it was for a while. You know, I came home and it was like, oh, I get to do laundry, which I haven't done. I get to mop the floor and clean toilets. This house is fully mine. It I don't have my maid walking around all the time. And so that was a really happy transition for me until it wasn't. You know, until it's like, I don't know if I want to clean toilets anymore. I have proved to myself I can do it and I can do laundry and is like folding little boy underwear. I'm just tired of it. So my brain was yelling out, you can do more than this, you know. And so when my son, my youngest, was a year and a half, I just said to my husband, I need something more than this. And so I did manage to get hired on as a consultant with a local geological consulting company who wanted to build an oil and gas company. So if I wanted an oil and gas job, there was one waiting for me in Calgary, but we didn't want to live in Calgary, so I just had to move on from that. But I knew this was going to be a different chapter. And Saskatoon is more of a mining town. And my degree was in mining in terms of geological engineering, so it wasn't too foreign for me for me, but I had no work experience in it. So I helped this company try to build an oil and gas arm. It wasn't too successful because everything's done in Calgary. And after a few months, they asked me to be the chief operating officer. And I thought, wow, that is amazing because, you know, it's the C-suite. You get to actually make decisions that influence a company in terms of my corporate climb. This is great. This is like the title that looks good on a your calling card, you know, your business card. But I said, you know, my son's by that time he was two. And I was like, I still need time with him. So yeah, I'll do it, but for 50% of the time. But little did I know when you do C-suite, you your brain does not turn off. You are always trying to figure out where is this company going? How can I, you know, organize the processes to achieve, allow us to achieve success. So my brain was always going. And, you know, you can't just email halftime. So when I was trying to develop this oil and gas company, I remember so many times sitting at home, my son's wanting to play, and you're going, just hold on, I just got to finish this email. And so what I had essentially agreed to was a hundred percent job for 50% of the pay. You know, you come to that realization, but it's still my drive in that position was so high that I was willing to accept that. But it was also at that time that my dad's cancer was getting worse. And so it was almost like the perfect storm. I was the sandwich generation where you're caring for parents, you're caring for young kids, and you've got a job that demands a lot of you. But we keep going. We just somehow find the strength to do everything that that we're supposed to do, of course, with the support of so many other people. So, you know, I would go to work, you know, after school, you would get the kids from the bus, then I'd head over to my parents, help them where I could, and then stay really late, say goodnight to the kids over the phone while my husband puts them to bed, and then go home late at night. And just doing that for so long, you just don't even realize what you're doing, or how burnt out you're feeling, or how much is on your plate that you're just fighting through every day.

Regina Sayer 54:45

And you're not giving fully to any any one of them.

Loss and Reevaluating Life's Purpose

Angela Jamieson 54:50

Yeah, exactly. So I wasn't fully a mother. I probably gave the most to my job. You know, you look back on that and and that that ambition, that desire to be seen as worthy on a career stance, you know, being a female in a male-dominated field, there's so much to prove, you feel, that you're going to come hell or high water, you're going to succeed. And that's where you that's the danger that I see people because I was there. You know, it's it's really nice when you can step back and just see the mindset you were in at that point, and that we all get into that. I mean, maybe not everyone. Maybe not everyone's as nuts as I am, but it's that inner drive to succeed in a very public way. Like if you like who who gets real recognition for being a good mother? Like we should all be that, but we don't get it. So yeah, we're all doing a great job, but when you need that recognition or you feel like that matters to you, you're not gonna get it from parenting. You're not gonna get it from caring for your dad. So I think it wasn't a conscious decision, but I think that's what really drove me to give as much as I did to my job for so long.

Regina Sayer 56:13

Did you know that your father had cancer when you came back, or was it only after you came back that he was dying?

Angela Jamieson 56:19

Only after we came back. But it was he's a typical man, maybe, of like never going for checkups. There's, you know, stuff going wrong and he never checked it out. And so by the time and what caused it was he his doctor was retiring and he needed to choose a new doctor. So the doctor said, let's do some baseline scans, and cancer was everywhere. So that was it, it was a shock, but it it was something that, you know, you gotta deal with and something that's not going to uh yeah, you can't you can't affect it by doing more work.

Regina Sayer 56:53

Did you know that when when he got the diagnosis, if there was any cure for it, if there was a way, or if it was just a matter of time?

Angela Jamieson 57:01

I think it was just a matter of time. I think when I went to the appointment with the oncologist, it was he was like, you know, it's everywhere. So we could do chemo with you, but it will weaken you so quickly. And how old was he? He was 77. And I think like he was so healthy, he's the last person this should have happened to because he swam over 80 laps a day. He was so fit and he ate really well and all this, he really took care of himself. And so for this to happen was quite a shock. The doctor said, Well, if we start chemo, you probably will be too weak to sit in this chair. And my dad, I think it was July when we had that meeting, and he said, Well, I'm still swimming, so I'm I'm not gonna do anything. So he made the conscious decision not to do any treatment. So by probably November, he started losing feeling in his legs, and so he he stopped swimming probably a month before that. And then by December at Christmas time, he was bedridden. So it moved pretty fast. Uh, he passed away then in January. He lived it on his own terms and he didn't have to go through the the poison that is chemo, unfortunately.

Regina Sayer 58:14

And your mom must have been quite devastated, I imagine.

Angela Jamieson 58:17

Yeah, um, I think with any Asian couple, the devastation isn't really shown that much. She's a very strong woman, and she basically got on with it. Not saying she doesn't

Regina Sayer 58:30

taught not to show it.

Angela Jamieson 58:31

Yeah, yeah. I think that's so she's super strong. She's 82, and she was eight years younger than than my dad, and she's so active, really wonderful when your parents are so healthy. Yeah, she's she's doing well. We we all miss my dad in crazy ways, and that's life. So it's kind of interesting. You know, this was my biggest loss to date because you you always kind of take your parents for granted. You always they're always there for you in a supporting role. And we're so selfish because what all we can do is see through our own eyes that sometimes we don't realize consistency of their support until they're gone. And so, yeah, that was a big moment in my life that gave me appreciation for everyone before me who has lost a parent.

Regina Sayer 59:19

But that was also a very huge pivot point for you as well, because that's when everything just started changing. You made some huge decisions after that.

The Journey to Relaxed Productivity

Evolving Beliefs and Influences

Angela Jamieson 59:28

I did because he had choked on some tea in the afternoon, and my brother who lives in Australia, he was here taking care of him, and he said, I think you need to get here. That afternoon into that night, he really went downhill. So my brother said, I'm gonna do the night shift. You go home with the kids, you know. And I said, I'll get the kids on the bus and I'll come right back. So I told my dad I loved him, gave him a kiss, and I said, I'll see you in the morning. I'll go home right now. But before I got back, I got the call from my brother in the morning to say he's gone. And that moment was kind of a really kick in the gut in terms of I just spoke to him. Like I I spoke to him a few hours ago, and now he's gone. All these things went ran through my head, like all the people that he swam with, he's never they're never gonna see him again. All the people that, you know, he would go to the grocery store on Wednesday, they will never see him again. And everyone has takes up space on this planet, whether you know them or not, everyone's world is better that you exist. So it just made me think of the loss of my dad's energy here. And it made me think, what the hell am I doing with my life that I am chasing this tale that I will never catch? I need to slow it down. I need to figure out what life is all about. Because, you know, there was my dad who has come from wartime in Hong Kong, who has gone through starvation and he had abuse growing up, who focused so hard on his goal to get to Canada through a scholarship, who lived a wonderful life in Canada for decades, gone, just like that. And I'm I'm just like, I need a better story. I need to figure out what this is about. So I knew I had to quit my COO job and focus back on my family. And that's when I was like happy to do laundry again and to really figure out, you know, this is my place, this is where I can give to the ones that I love so that they can be more whole as well. So I dove into personal development. I was just trying to figure out who I was, what am I here for? Yeah, started me on a path. I took the learnings from a lot of different people and I made a way of thinking that made sense to my logical brain. And I called it inner engineering. And I called on a couple friends and I said, Would you be willing to go through this program that I created with me just to give me some feedback? And a lot of I picked them specifically because they were super logical, super engineers that I came across in my travels in my life. And they all said, This was amazing. This really changes the way I think about life and the way that I know that I can mold my thoughts in the pursuit of joy, which is the purpose of life I've discovered. So after a few test cases, I started coaching one-on-one. And I did, I think my first year I coached eight people, which got to be tiring because I sat for so long and you're sort of saying the same things to people, just different modules. So then I started looking into digital stuff, and that's kind of where I am today is I talk about relaxed productivity. You kind of alluded to that in your first questions about how I found when I relax, I'm actually more productive and also redefining what productivity is. Whenever you look on the internet for productivity tips, it's always how can I do more work in less time? When in fact, how about we be productive about creating moments with those that we love or really defining what's important in our lives so that we can make sure when we are lying on that deathbed, we have been productive in the areas that matter. So I put that all together in a course called Relaxed Productivity. So it combines my thoughts about productivity and how we're doing it all wrong with my inner engineering way of thinking. So I created that digital course. And from that, when I ran it the first time, people were saying, I want more. We need to keep this up so that we can understand how to get through our real life problems. So then I created a membership from it. And I have no clue what I'm doing most of the time. I'm just going to where there's opportunity, I'm just going to say yes. And I build what I think people want. So the membership has been going for over a year now. And that's been a huge blessing in terms of me seeing how what I teach people has affected their life in the same way that it's affected mine, is that you see so much possibility, you feel limitless, and you can always get to happy. No matter what is going on in your life, you can see the bigger picture and you can reframe it to where it's an advantage to you, where you can see the beauty in the moments, even the worst moments. So there's even beauty in my dad's passing. And we all know when someone's in pain, there's relief to see them be free again, you know, and just little things like that that really make sense of the world and can make you feel better and feel like you are an important part of what we're calling the present.

Regina Sayer 1:04:42

What were some of the types of tools and avenues that you went down when you started going down that path that you were exploring? Because I think you said you studied Tony Robbins, Oprah, Abraham Hicks, and then also your mother had a Christian upbringing, and you kind of moved away from that into these more universal concepts. So can you talk a little bit about that, how that kind of evolved and shaped itself?

Angela Jamieson 1:05:07

Yeah, sure. So yeah, we were raised in the church, the Alliance Church when we were growing up. And I do remember there just being moments where I'm just, I don't understand what the pastor is saying. Because, you know, God is love, but he was also so revengeful, like very vengeful. When things happened, you know, it's like, oh, he's gonna strike you down, or the whole concept of hell really was terrifying. I remember being at a conference, a youth conference, where they say, you know, everyone here is going to be saved, but everyone out there is going to die in hell. And I'm like, it just made no sense to me because there's so many religions around the world who say the same things, but how can we all condemn each other to hell? You know, so there's a lot of those things that didn't connect for me. But when I especially like Abraham Hicks. Is the biggest influence on my life at the moment because what they say is consistent. And with my background as an engineer, where things are based in logic and are consistent. And you know, you mentioned my tagline was where science meets spirit, is that I know science is also not fact. It's just the best thing that we know at the moment. So there's still that liminal space between science and spirit. So when I was learning what Abraham Hicks says, and it was consistent, it's like, you know, emotions can be measured as frequency. And also Dr. Joe Dispenza was huge in that. And I did listen to Tony Robbins, but actually, that was so long ago. It's it's a bit old, but I have to give him credit because I did listen to him. And Oprah, of course, when I was growing up, she was a big influence on all of us, I think. But there's also, you see, parts, all these people were influences, but also showed me what I didn't want. There's things about Tony Robbins that I don't want in my own life. There's things about Oprah that I don't want in my own life. However, I will take her house in Hawaii. But you know, there's just when humans are part of the mix, there's always something fallible. So if you see a lot of the thought leaders that we call thought leaders, a lot of them are divorced. And there is part of me who's going, I don't want that. Like so there's also growth on their side. So there's no condemnation, but there's also the reality of nobody's perfect. So while you might learn something from someone, you also have to take it with a, you know, take it through your own filters in a way that makes sense to you. So that's what I wanted to also create with my course and my membership is I'm never going to tell you what to do, but I'm going to ask you to look at your diagnostics that you get from yourself. And then you make the decision. And everyone's decisions can be different because we all get things, you know, a different thing out of an experience. So it's the recognition of that and also that you can never get it wrong. Because everyone does the best they can at a certain period. So if it doesn't turn out right, it's a learning opportunity because you did the best you could. So I think there's a lot of that whole relaxed part of it is like give yourself a break. And it's don't be so hard on yourself. Kind of like when I was growing up and I had those high ambitions. If I didn't achieve them, I would just not talk about it. Like it was something that we just don't talk about. Whereas my kids, I'm never telling them what to do. I'm encouraging them to find out what they love to do and I I help them focus on that. And lo and behold, they achieve such wonderful things. And just to see that growth in them, in what they want to do, even if I don't agree with it, is part of their life journey, their life journey that they're creating, and I have no control over, which is great, because I shouldn't. At some point, I'm going to exit their lives. Hopefully, you know, the nature of things means I exit first. So I don't want them dependent on my opinion. I don't want them dependent on my values. I want them to figure it out for themselves. It is hard sometimes. I have to catch myself before I'm telling them what to do. But for instance, my second child, my oldest son, he's a bit of a daredevil. And he does things that I'm just like, Lord save you. But we've all had the discussion, like, so if you happen to depart this life earlier than you should, I am going to comfort myself that you are happy doing what you're doing. Because I can't, I won't control you. I don't want to control you, but also you're you're making some interesting decisions that I have to support because that's what he loves. Yeah. So because the regret of not doing what you love is way more than the approval from your parent.

Regina Sayer 1:10:00

Yeah, that's very interesting that you bring that up because a lot of times kids are trying to please their parents by doing what it is parents want.

Angela Jamieson 1:10:09

Yeah. And I see that in my daughter. And I think she comes by it honestly because I had it, I hugely had it. But she makes decisions because and she takes things on herself. If I don't approve of what she's doing, she takes it hard. And so I have to be very careful with how I'm chatting with her.

Regina Sayer 1:10:29

And when you were doing all of this, what are some of the tools that you were using? Mindfulness, for example?

Angela Jamieson 1:10:37

Well, I've sort of morphed them into my own tools. I've taken little bits from here and there. But the thing I just pulled my membership the other day about what part of what I taught you was the biggest thing. So they had mentioned, I talk about the belief cycle, which, you know, beliefs are just thoughts that you keep thinking. And so they're not necessarily true. And I've taught them how to hack that. So the indication that it's not true is when you get a negative emotion. So the negative emotion, even though it makes us feel bad in the moment, it's actually just data. So I'm teaching everyone, take a step back from that negative emotion. What does that data really mean? And is it true? And it was interesting because last call we had, we meet twice a month. I decided to talk to them about something I was struggling with. And it was really nice for them to say, you know, when you thought this, is it true? And they were like mirroring my my words back to me, and I'm like, darn it. But it there, it's really helpful. And it also showed them that because even though I taught them this, they're tools we will all use all the time. Whenever there's something that goes a little pear-shaped in life, sometimes like you, I know the tools, I can reframe everything, but it's really nice to have that outside view to give me some clarity because sometimes we're too close and we, you know, can't see the forest for the trees. So it's one of those now our group is so solidified around the thinking that it's almost like a mastermind. And even though I'm like onboarding new people all the time, everyone's super supportive. And once you learn the tools, everyone brings, you know, a problem and we will mastermind it. We will try to figure out like, how can you think about this a little differently so that it just makes more sense? And there's so many times where you just someone will will say something and it's like, it's like the pressure valve just releases. Like, yes, of course, of course. And then you can just solve your life problems that way. So I really love that I'm teaching people to listen to themselves instead of listening to me. Eventually, they could all be fine without me. They've got the tools, but it's really nice to come together and mastermind issues. And I was just benefited last time because it was mine.

Regina Sayer 1:13:08

Is it for men and women?

The Unexpected Path to Writing Romance

Angela Jamieson 1:13:09

Yeah. Actually, I've got 50-50. And I think because my background is engineering and because it's a logical way to think that attracts men as well.

Regina Sayer 1:13:20

Apart from this, you also have been dabbling with the pen, writing some romance novels. Yes, I have been. And so before we get to the other thing, let's get to where the other where you first started writing a whole bunch of books. And a lot of them. A lot of them. How much? 22? 22 novels?

Angela Jamieson 1:13:40

Twenty I've got twenty-two titles. Some of them are box sets, so they're 19 actual stories.

Regina Sayer 1:13:47

So how did that come about?

Angela Jamieson 1:13:48

Yeah.

Regina Sayer 1:13:49

When you listen to you, you know, it's like, this is completely other facet of it.

Angela Jamieson 1:13:55

I know. This part of my life is like also the universe speaking again. Because I also remember when I was in grade one, the question of what do you want to be when you grow up? And I wrote a writer. And I remember look finding that piece of paper years later as I was cleaning my parents' house out. I always knew I I love reading, I love writing. Probably doesn't come as any surprise to you now, is that, you know, over the summer the library would put on a reading contest and I would just try to fill up so many of those forms. I would read books voraciously and, you know, try to win those prizes. Yeah, so this writing came wholly by accident. There's a book that I wanted to write for decades, and we'll get to that right. And so I thought, you know, I'd done all these writing groups. They talked about traditional publishing. I did a writing group with a traditional publisher, and they did a contest and I lost every time. I mean, I didn't even place. So it kind of made me think, I think I need to learn how to self-publish because I I want this book out in the world, even if someone tells me it's not worth it. But anyway, um, so I took a self-publishing course and I bought this course because they said we'll teach you how to self-publish. When I got into the course after paying thousands of dollars, they said, uh, we're gonna teach you. So 9% of Amazon sales are nonfiction. So 91% is fiction, and 55% of that is romance. And I'm like, holy smokes, because all I read is nonfiction. And I know tons of people read nonfiction. That's just a drop in the bucket when it comes to books. And I had, I think I've just skimmed through the thornbirds in terms of romance, but other than that, I I have not read romance. So we got into it. The whole concept of the course is that you use ghostwriters to write the books. But when I started getting these ghostwriting books back, they were horrible, but we were also paying not very much. So I started writing myself. And I used the logic of this is how a romance novel is set out. You know, Hallmark movies. I always set my watch, it's like, okay, 20 minutes left, they're gonna have this huge argument that is gonna look like there is no turning back, they are never getting back together. She is moving back to the city. The small town boys lost this girl. And then by the time it's at the top of the hour, they're having, they're back together and all is good. So I knew there was a recipe. And so just with my logical brain and maybe some desire to write, I just started writing romance. It was so much fun. There's part of me which finds it still fascinating. I can have a general structure of where I want things to go and about which chapter they should start turning. But it's almost like I get these characters in my brain, I meet them, and then they tell me the story. And I just sit there like I'm playing a movie in my brain, and I just type out what happens in the movie. So yeah, it turned out that I'm a writer of romance novels. And yeah, I think the hardest part is doing the romantic parts.

Regina Sayer 1:17:13

Are you gonna reveal who your name is?

Angela Jamieson 1:17:16

Well, you know, just for you, this is the first time I'm doing this, is revealing who it is. But so my pen name is Aimee Bronson, and that's A-I-M-E-E Bronson. And the name came to me in a meditation because I was I was trying to decide what what to call myself, and that it came to me in a meditation. I thought, oh, that's cool. And then I talked to one of my friends who speaks French, and she goes, Oh, that's like beloved, or it's just totally perfect with the theme. I was like, Oh, yes. I never even thought of it that way. But yeah, so that's kind of a cool way that that came to me, and it makes sense.

Regina Sayer 1:17:58

Yes, and when you told me about this, I went and looked on Amazon and I was like, wow, she really did write all these books. And a lot of people read them, and a lot of people leave reviews as well.

Angela Jamieson 1:18:09

I know.

Regina Sayer 1:18:10

And they're pretty good reviews.

Angela Jamieson 1:18:12

It's just been so much fun, and but it was a part of my life I had I felt like I had to keep secret because I never intended to write, you know, and I was pumping out a book a month, so I wasn't telling anyone, and people are going, Oh, she's probably not doing anything, you know, she's raising kids. But I'm like the busiest I've ever been.

Regina Sayer 1:18:33

Secretly writing.

Angela Jamieson 1:18:34

Secretly writing, like I told hardly anyone, but my family knew, and so my sons who are now teenagers, they would sort of snicker at me because I'd have to find the model of the month, you know. I'd look through all these photographs that, you know, we have to purchase for the covers. Yeah, so I'm looking at handsome men's bare torsos most of the time.

Regina Sayer 1:18:55

And what's your husband got to say about this?

Angela Jamieson 1:18:57

Oh, he thinks it's hilarious. And I mean, we have a good laugh about it, and I don't think he's read any of them. He's on my mailing list, so he knows kind of what's going on with Amy, but I don't think he's actually read any. Yeah, my mom she said, you'll have to get me copies of your books. And I'm like, no, no, mother. But I think, you know, when I look back at the first books and I was just learning the ropes, they still got really good reviews, but I think I'm way better now. So my last series is my favorite yet, and I put in a lot of personal things in there because as I was growing up, I really liked mystery. I like trying to figure things out. So I put in a little bit of kind of that into my books, just finding my own voice, I guess. And I have not made time to read a lot of other romance to try to see what other people are doing. So it's really my own take on what romance is.

Regina Sayer 1:19:57

That's actually good because then you sort of you don't know if you're writing what they've written in the way that they've written if you do that. And this way you know it's just purely coming from you.

Angela Jamieson 1:20:09

Yeah. And and I I was talking to an author, and they were saying, you know, sometimes they don't even know what they put in their books because it's kind of like you get in the flow and they talk about this, you know, on a new age spiritual level. You get into the flow and there's things that come through you that you don't even realize you're saying. There's so so much wisdom that comes through your pen that when you read it back, it's kind of like, that was actually really good. Where'd that come from? And part of it also I think applies to fiction is like that came together really nicely. Don't know where that came from.

Regina Sayer 1:20:42

When did you write that? After you were doing all the personal development or before?

The Inspiration Behind a Unique Book

Angela Jamieson 1:20:47

It was kind of during. So I was doing the coaching while I was writing. 2022, 23 were my big writing time. And then when I two years ago, I was like, what the heck am I doing? I'm just caught up in this romance, having a great time, mind you, but uh I forgot about my own book. So the book that I well that I originally wanted to take the course for. And so I stopped writing and I focused on that book that was sitting in my head for decades. And Christmas last year, I said, I gotta get it done. Just get her done. And it was gonna be the first book with my name on it. So it felt harder for some reason. Like when I write the romance, it's almost like nobody knows it's me. It's not really me. And I'm just gonna shove it out there.

Regina Sayer 1:21:35

So, what is the name of this book? Because I'll just pop in right now and say that we're gonna do a special episode that talks about, you know, the inspiration behind this book and the process of writing it, and of course, any kind of healing that happened during the writing of it and the purpose of the writing of it and who it's meant for, and a lot more things that we'll be covered then. But just talk about for now, you know, what is the inspiration behind this book and how long you have been planning on writing this book?

Angela Jamieson 1:22:04

Yeah. Well, the book is called Using Number Two to Get to Number One, and it's the shockingly insightful, full of crap self-help book. The inspiration

Regina Sayer 1:22:15

And she's back to the toilet theme.

Angela Jamieson 1:22:17

Yes, exactly. And I've kind of alluded to it already that, you know, because of that septic tank issue, how it's just been in my brain, like everything I have to think too much about when I had to go to the bathroom. So it's one of those maybe childhood so-called traumas. I say in the book, of course, I'm not traumatized, but I'm affected by it for sure. And so as I was doing personal development, it was just one of those things that we talk about momentum. You know, if you have momentum to go to the bathroom, you know you've really got to go. So there were just so many parallels that just kept coming up. And it's not like a poop joke book. It's actually quite deep. And yeah, there's there's just more depth to it than than a good poop joke. But that in itself is also one of the points, is like everybody understands a poop joke. So it's a book in where no one is left out. You don't, you know, it's also very personal. So even though it's a universal thing, we all have very personal experiences that we will probably never talk about with another person. So all of those internal reflections I've kind of cover in the book. But, you know, it did take me, I had the title over 20 years ago. And I remember telling it to a fellow engineer, and he thought it was so hilarious. He's like, Oh, you have to write the book. But I just got busy with life and I never quite put pen to paper. So when we moved back, I just thought when COVID hit, I thought, this is time to write that book. So just writing all these stories, but also realizing that everything has its perfect time. That now that I've had kids, like 20 years ago, I had just my daughter. But when you have boys, man, that poop jokes are just, they're just so plentiful. And the awareness of all of that. So I've I've got better stories, I've got more stories, I've got a wider range of topics to talk about. So I think there's always a good time, you know, whenever things happen is the right time for it. So I'm not beating myself up for not writing it faster, but it's out now and it's so much fun, and I've really enjoyed it. And knowing how to self-publish, I was able to put together what I think is a pretty good book.

Regina Sayer 1:24:38

And you did it, you wrote it during the personal development as well or after. So you had that aspect of it as well? Had your father passed away by then?

Angela Jamieson 1:24:48

Yeah. So I I was in personal development, but I had been thinking so long about all of these things. And then the personal development kind of added more things to my thoughts, but also confirmed things that I had thought because life is the best teacher. What you go through and what you learn from it, especially what you learn from your perceived failures, really give you that life wisdom that I was gaining and then was accelerated and confirmed by actual targeted study into personal development.

Advice on identity, growth, and self-acceptance

Regina Sayer 1:25:21

We are definitely going to delve deeper into that, into the special episode. So, but I wanted to ask you for some advice when you look back over the different aspects of your life, including, you know, the engineer, the musician, the kid running to find the toilet paper, the person who's writing the romance novel, the person who's lived abroad and has this international aspect. So mother, daughter, wife, I know it's gonna be hard to ask this, but out of all of this journey, what is the one piece of advice you think that you have pulled out of it that is the most important thing that you can share to listeners?

Angela Jamieson 1:26:05

I think the whole concept, especially with my audience that I talk to about professionals, is that you are more than your job. And like you just said, there are so many facets of us, not only through time, but also where we are right now. We have so many things that we do on a day-to-day basis that we also need to make sure we create balance in our lives. Another thing is just the recognition how you're you've grown through life, that I'm not the same person I was, allowing people to go through that growth. You can probably think of people you've met through your life who maybe you didn't like very much because they were in a certain stage of belief at that time. And so when you meet them again is to like give them a break. Just as you have grown, they have probably grown too. So keep an open mind until they prove you otherwise. You know, you will always meet people at a certain level of expectation. So to just give people the gift of, I don't expect you to be the same person that you were when I knew you. And I think that gives us all a little leeway to really be ourselves instead of trying to prove that we're not the same person. So it's a bit of a long way around saying that we're so unique. There's so many things balled into each of us that we need to, you know, sometimes sit and celebrate how far we've come and how much we know and how original our package of desires are. That's another thing we talk about in relaxed productivity is that ego is not bad because I find that ego gives us our personality because you like things that are different than what I like. And so if you follow your bliss according to your ego and you balance that with the diagnostics. That you can get from your emotions, then we're creating a great world together. You're focusing on that, and I'm focusing on this, and together we make an amazing world.

Regina Sayer 1:28:11

And what is a small tool that you think that a listener can use when they find themselves trapped in this beating themselves up for one thing or another?

Angela Jamieson 1:28:21

It's interesting. And it came to me in a meditation as well, which I sound like I'm this big meditator, but I go, I fall off the wagon sometimes and currently off the wagon. But in the good old days, um I remember being covered in darkness and then hearing cracking sounds. And as things cracked, and it was like it became clear that it was a bunch of wood, almost like I was inside a beaver down. But as the twigs cracked and fell away, I could start to see the sunshine. And when these fell away, I could see it was like society demands or expectations from others, things I put on myself. And when you let all of that go, you can actually rise up into the sunshine and be yourself. So that one meditation that happened to me is just like let go of all of the things you think the world, what you want from me, what you think you need to do, what society needs you to do, what your parents need to do you to do, and just be. And when you can get to that place of total self-acceptance, it's such a wonderful place that you feel limitless. You feel like, what's next? I want to learn more. I I want to even fail because then it shows me that I'm trying. That's what the whole thing behind relaxed productivity is be kind to yourself and just let stuff go so you can be truly you.

Connection and Closing

Regina Sayer 1:29:52

Okay. Yeah, as I'm listening to you. It's just, you know, I have kind of a logical brain, although I'm definitely not into maths or engineering, but I always sort of look for the logic in something to balance out the intuitive and the spiritual part of it. And um, as you're talking, I'm thinking, yeah, that makes sense. Yep, that's logical, you know. Thank you for sharing that. So if people want to connect with you, how can they do that?

Angela Jamieson 1:30:16

I'm quite active on LinkedIn. So if they're on LinkedIn, they can just send me a message or go to my website and there's a contact page there. And also you can pick up some freebies off my website and see what I'm up to. There's a link to my book, um, some other resources that might help people. I actually just need to organize it a little better, but it should be done pretty soon. But there's lots lots on my website.

Regina Sayer 1:30:41

And what is the name of your website?

Angela Jamieson 1:30:43

Uh it's just angelajamieson.com. So it's it's jamieson, not like the whiskey, it's an I-E S O N, angela jamieson.com, and that'll take you there.

Regina Sayer 1:30:53

Okay.

Angela Jamieson 1:30:54

And you're on Instagram or Facebook? I am, but I kind of suck at those. So it's mostly LinkedIn, and then when I remember, I'll go on Instagram and and Facebook.

Regina Sayer 1:31:04

Okay. Well, I will definitely put that in the show notes, and I will also make sure that I put the link to Amazon that shows where your romance novels are as well. So people can just go and have a look at that as well, just for a fun thing to do.

Angela Jamieson 1:31:19

And I kind of feel, you know, and we talked about this where I felt kind of exposed revealing that because I also talk to people as Amy. So I I'm just kind of now they'll know. That's okay.

Regina Sayer 1:31:34

Well, I wonder what that dynamic is behind why you wanting to keep them a bit separate and then now in this. And I'm I'm really happy. And um, thank you so much for agreeing to actually be open to sharing the name that you use, because I know when we first spoke, you were a bit like, no, I I I don't I don't think I want to share that. But I think it's great. I think it's uh it's nice to see that facet of you as well.

Angela Jamieson 1:32:00

Yeah, yeah. I think part it's nice to know that people can do a bunch of stuff, like a range of things. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Logical engineer writing muddy romance for seniors. No, I only say for seniors because that's the people that respond to my Facebook ads the most, 65 plus women. So it's like woo-hoo.

Regina Sayer 1:32:21

That must be a whole other podcast topic.

Angela Jamieson 1:32:24

It might be. It did help me get over my feelings of like, uh, is this weird? Because I was getting letters from my readers, and it's like, you know, I think I'm doing a social service because women, we tend to focus on our families, and we're doing that through our entire lives. And sometimes at some point, your husband's equipment might not work as well, and you just have to read a book, and you get some needs met. So what I kept telling myself.

Regina Sayer 1:32:52

I think about when I was growing up as a kid, my grandmother, you know, and she must have been in her 70s. Yeah, she was reading Mills and Boons, you know, Harlequin, romance. And of course, after she'd read them, I'd be like, what's in here? But you know, they were pretty tame back then.

Angela Jamieson 1:33:09

So Yeah, yeah. And so I just feel there's so many readers, and you know, I I can make a good living from my book. So it's just fun. It's just a lot of fun.

Regina Sayer 1:33:21

Okay. Well, we are gonna come back and we're gonna talk about your other book, but we're gonna wrap this up and bring it to a close right now. And I just want to thank you so much, Angela, for sharing all of that information. I think that's some really, really good insights into lots of different topics that I think that go the gamut of life.

Angela Jamieson 1:33:40

We really covered everything, I think. So thank you so much for having me and for asking such insightful questions. They were sometimes hard to answer.

Regina Sayer 1:33:50

Didn't mean to put you on the spot. That's good. That's good.

Angela Jamieson 1:33:53

That is good. Very good. It's good.

Regina Sayer 1:33:55

I'm glad to hear that. And I hope that your answers are also making our listeners think, and if anything, giving them hope and not being in a position where you think, oh no, I can't change my life, or I can't do something different, or I have this belief system, or this is how it has to be, or you know, my family is this way, so I have to be this way. So I think that you are just like the living proof that all those answers are no, you can do something different, you can be different.

Angela Jamieson 1:34:26

And you can be crazy, but you can also be happy at the same time.

Regina Sayer 1:34:31

Exactly. Thank you again, and listeners, until the next time, have a great day wherever you are in this beautiful world.